Interview with Heathen 2010

By Bradley Smith

Being as Heathen has been around for a really long time can you give a little bit of History to the obscure origins of one of the Bay Area’s most underrated thrash bands of all time?  What made the Bay Area such a breeding ground for such talented thrash bands and who else do you feel should have garnered more attention than they did?

Kragen: There were many different lineups of Heathen early on but the band really started to gain some attention on the Bay Area scene with the “Pray For Death” demo.  The band played shows at all of the great venues for thrash back in the day including Ruthie’s Inn, the Stone and the Omni.  The scene was just starting to blow up at that time with Metallica and Exodus and Heathen was fortunate enough to be there, playing shows with other bands from the scene gaining a lot of fans and ultimately a deal with Combat Records.  There were a lot of great bands that didn’t get the attention they deserved.  Laughing Dead, which David White also sang for, was one band that made a killer 3 song demo but never made an album.  I would have liked to have heard a Piranha album as well.

Your new album The Evolution of Chaos has just been unleashed.  Can you compare it to your early material and describe how you think it is similar and how is it different?   How did you approach the writing and recording of this album and how did it feel to be back in the studio recording a brand new album of fresh Heathen songs?

Kragen: The Evolution of Chaos basically picks up where Victims of Deception left off.  There are some elements on the new album that are reminiscent of VoD and also Breaking the Silence, but the songs were all written with the intention of creating not just a great thrash record but a great metal record.  There were 3 songs that the band demoed in 2005 and then another 7 songs that were written between that time and 2008.  3 of those were written by Lee, 3 by me and 1 by Jon.  It was great for the band to be back in the studio although we wish that it didn’t take so long to get the album finished!

Can you tell me about the original demise of Heathen and what led to its resurrection?  How did it feel doing that first show as Heathen after all those years?  Was it easy to be comfortable as a band again or did it take some adjusting to being in close proximity to your fellow musicians again?

Kragen: Heathen essentially split up around the time that Lee joined Die Krupps.  The band had toured for Victims of Deception and gone through another lineup change with the passing of bassist Randy Laird and Doug Piercy leaving the band and moving to Germany.  The songs that ended up being on the Recovered CD were actually started around that time but never really finished.  Then Lee got the offer to play with Die Krupps which were gaining a lot of popularity around the time.  Thrash of the Titans is really what brought the band back together again.  After that reunion show the band played Wacken and interest in the band grew again.  Any band is like a family.  There are arguments and disagreements but it’s pretty easy to get back in the swing of things in terms of playing together.

Heathen did a sort of reunion tour across Europe with Nuclear Assault and luckily I managed to catch you guys on it in London.  What did you think of being on a real tour after a long hiatus from Heathen?  How are European and US fans different?  How did you feel your performances went on this tour and how was it playing live with Nuclear Assault?

Kragen: This was really the first tour the band had done since 1992 or 1993.  It was a tough tour and the band did it in a small motor-home.  I wasn’t in the band at that time, but I know that they enjoyed playing every night, especially to the awesome European fans that were really looking forward to seeing Heathen after such a long time away.  At the same time, it wasn’t like the last time they played Europe with Sepultura and Sacred Reich where they were playing much larger audiences.  I think that really reinforced the band’s desire to try and take things to the next level.  It’s much different in the US and much more difficult to try and tour here because of how large the country is and the costs involved.

How hard is it these days for a thrash band to MAKE IT compared to the 80s?  As I understand it you had a tough time getting a label for this album despite the fact that it has such strong thrash compositions. 

Kragen: There was definitely a time in the 80’s where thrash was king.  It’s much harder now for any band to try and “make it” because of the state of the industry.  Record sales are much lower, which means that the labels do not want to pay very much for the album recording or tour support.  Heathen did have several offers from labels but really had to think hard about which one would be able to give the band the support it needed to make a great album and tour for it.  Even now it’s difficult to get the support needed for tours.

Do you really think that Grunge killed thrash metal?  Do you think that grunge bands were pretty ungrateful since metal bands took out the likes of Soundgarden and Alice in Chains when they were relatively small and they didn’t repay the favor?

Kragen: I don’t think that grunge killed thrash.  I have actually heard that most of the guys in the grunge bands were actually fans of thrash like Dave Grohl.  I think metal at that time sort of killed itself with the bands becoming parodies of themselves, primarily the glam bands.  The only thrash bands that really survived during that time were the big ones like the Big 4 and even they had to change a little to try and stay with what was going on.  I’m not sure if that was a good move or a bad move on their part but they are still around. 

The song A Hero’s Welcome is a tribute of sorts to soldiers.  What inspired you to write this song and what are your opinions of the wars that America is involved in right now in Iraq and Afghanistan? 

Kragen: A Hero’s Welcome was written as a tribute to soldiers of all nations to honor their bravery and everything that they do to protect their countries.  Lee really wanted to have a song dedicated to the soldiers and the music for this track seemed to be the perfect fit.  Everyone in the band has slightly different political views so this is just mine…  I think that the US should solve its own issues at home before we put ourselves in the middle of wars in other countries.

Choosing a name like Heathen has obvious religious/spiritual implications.  What sort of thought went into choosing this name and how does religion play in your life, if at all?  How have your views changed from the early days of the band compared with your modern beliefs?

Kragen: Honestly, from everything the guys have said over the years, they originally picked the name Heathen because it sounded cool.  I don’t think there was a great deal of thought behind the religious implications of the name.  Everyone in the band has different religious beliefs ranging from Atheism to devout Christian.  For me personally, I am not religious at all but I guess I am spiritual to a certain extent.  My views on religion haven’t really changed much over the years.  I would be willing to bet that it’s the same for all of the guys.

From a person’s ego and such how difficult has it been to go from the relative the big time hype and constant praise of Heathen’s early career to the relative obscurity of today?  Does your status today give you some freedom and release you from the pressure of your early recordings?

Kragen: Heathen got really lucky with the success of Set Me Free from the first album. The whole album was excellent but that song had a certain commercial appeal and MTV played the video quite a bit.  That was a great starting point for the band, but the song was not very representative of the rest of the songs on the album.  Nevertheless, that album went on to sell over a 100,000 copies worldwide, which at the time was a tremendous accomplishment for any thrash band.  Once the deal with Combat fell apart, the band struggled to get things back on track and it took 5 years before Victims of Deception came out.  I think Heathen has always been an underground thrash band, just the same as today.  It’s really the success of Set Me Free that was a wild card.  We still try and make the same high quality thrash music today that the band started creating in the mid 80’s.

The lyrics say that we are in a world controlled by chaos, how exactly do you mean?  I mean are the earthquakes in Chile and Haiti an example of this?  I mean no one saw this devastation coming and now people around the globe are affected by these tragedies. 

Kragen: The idea behind the lyrics to Control By Chaos is that chaos is all around us now, even on the internet.  From natural disasters to religious wars to seemingly insane choices made by our nations’ leaders.  It’s almost as if chaos is being created and/or used to distract people from the political maneuvering that is being done behind the scenes, enabling those in power to stay in power.

What are some of the future plans you have for Heathen and just in general?  How are you planning on promoting The Evolution of Chaos?  Plus as I understand it there are several finished songs lying around, any idea of when we might see another album?  I know Evolution hasn’t even cooled down yet but Heathen can be so addictive.(Shameless sucking up).

Kragen: Well, we did a couple of dates in Japan at the end of last year right before the album came out and we did a 3 week tour of Europe back in April/May of this year.  Right now we have a tour of Mexico in October and we’re currently working on plans for a US tour and another trip to Europe.  We’d like to get these tours solidified and then hopefully find the time in everyone’s schedules to start working on the next album.  I can’t speak for the other guys but I already have a couple of songs written!

I’ll leave Final Words to you but I don’t want to fall victim to your deception.  Heh heh.

Kragen: Many thanks for the great interview.  Thanks also to all of the fans that bought The Evolution of Chaos and supported Heathen over the years.  We’re looking forward to seeing everyone again out on tour!